0000007680 00000 n So I wrestle daily with these calculations and estimations. When it was introduced, the 400LS outperformed Cessna Citations of the day. Get extra lift from AOPA. Mike and Bill are known advisors, and they arent selling me anything, so I feel at home with their advice. 0000068334 00000 n 0000002793 00000 n Swearingen to develop the Twin Comanche. Pilot comfort, however, is less than satisfactory because it is cramped and the yoke constantly gets in the way of the pilots knees. Believe it or not, it felt good; I felt I was being a good steward of the airplane. hb``e`R About that SAS As noted above, Pipers artificial and marginal fix to the longitudinal instability of the original Cheyenne turned into a blot on the entire series. It also is a bit more involved to maintain. This vane on the earlier models tended to freeze up and sound a warning, which caused some pilots to try to disable the system. Apparently, any The IIXL is also the most versatile load-hauler of the all the early Cheyennes. 0000043582 00000 n Earlier avionics and autopilots or flight control systems can present real headaches. The TBM is smaller than the Cheyenne and has no potty, but you get there so quickly, Im sure I can hold on long enough. The numbers The PA-31T was produced from 1974 to 1983. However, this doesnt mean it is simple. This is because there are more systems, including the SAS. Its empennage was enlarged for stability at higher speeds and altitudes, and its fuselage was strengthened. What is the max speed with the larger engines and range. The original Cheyenne is designated PA-31T. 0000144133 00000 n These discussions open up even more variables. Taking your Cheyenne to just any good technician could result in missing one or more procedures. Search more Piper airplanes on Hangar67. Ive known him for several years. The Negative Torque Sensing feature provides a level of safety similar to autofeather, reducing prop drag by approximately 80 percent in case an engine is lost immediately after takeoff. Uploaded: 2022-07-05. 0000092671 00000 n The fuselage is limited to a 15,000-hour life, while the wing and empennage have 20,000-hour life limits.[3]. shown on page 43; Piper hopes to display. Studying the Pilot's manual When the altitude-hold is engaged, the trim wheel is in constant motion holding the aircraft level. A week or so after flying this I flew a Kingair200 thought on initial T/O that there was something wrong as acceleration was so slow compared to the 400LS. The turbine engines are so reliable that Ive the sense that, given my modest piloting skills, Id be safer in a single turbine than in a Baron. 0000013382 00000 n Des Moines Flying Service does an excellent lob getting parts from any source possible. 0000002458 00000 n A standard Cheyenne I came without wing-tip fuel tanks, but they were available as an option, and almost everyone anted up. It uses less runway, climbs and cruises faster than many pure jets. endstream endobj 189 0 obj <>stream In 1981, auto-ignition was first offered as an option. One of the most annoying characteristics of the Cheyenne is caused by the aileron/rudder interconnect. Other factors contributed to this, foremost among them a battle for control of the company that began in 1969 and that was not resolved until 1977 and the flood that devastated the Lock Haven plant. The IIXL is the winner in terms of payload/range and loading envelope. Changes Many elements of the first Cheyenne fit the Mickey Mouse appellation that was applied to all Piper airplanes. What are they going for these days? 181 0 obj <> endobj Ill never regret being responsible for her stewardship but I dont miss maintenance costs. It is an aeroplane that does everything well. If maximum cabin space is an issue, the IIXL is the best bet. The previous owner of N7222F (C-FGKS) flew the aircraft from Edmonton, Canada, to Northern Virginia to show us its beauty. [3] The PA-42-1000 Cheyenne IV was certified in 1984, 44 were built until 1991 and 37 remain in service in 2018. Other records later set by the 400LS, again piloted by Yeager in 400LS N4118Y (later reregistered as N46HL) for the C-1e Group 2 class, were: Miami-to-Boston, Miami-to-New York City, San Francisco-to-Charleston, West Virginia, San Francisco-to-Cincinnati, San Francisco-to-Los Angeles, New York City-to-Paris, Washington, DC-to-Paris and Gander-Paris. 91 or F.A.R 135. It true??? Maybe we should get another airplane. The thing fits us like a glove. 0000007543 00000 n Wing-tip fuel tanks were standard with this airplane, and so were redesigned engine air intakes and elongated exhaust stacks. My first instinct was to check the autopilot wasn't on. The I was developed to be the lowest cost turboprop in the market. 0000093388 00000 n 0000013245 00000 n They could cost more than we expect, and there is no guarantee that any of that expense could be recouped. A properly trained pilot will find it to be a very satisfactory airplane, except for the combustion heater problem. Fuel is carried in six tanks three interconnected tanks in each wing: a wet nacelle tank, and two bladder-type fuel cells. When the IIXL was announced, Thomas Gillespie, then Pipers head of marketing, was asked if production of the II was going to end. 17 0 obj << /Linearized 1 /O 19 /H [ 1122 283 ] /L 38316 /E 23523 /N 5 /T 37858 >> endobj xref 17 36 0000000016 00000 n 0000001067 00000 n 0000001405 00000 n 0000001612 00000 n 0000001748 00000 n 0000002090 00000 n 0000002404 00000 n 0000006240 00000 n 0000006446 00000 n 0000007290 00000 n 0000007475 00000 n 0000007966 00000 n 0000008485 00000 n 0000008975 00000 n 0000009725 00000 n 0000010134 00000 n 0000017979 00000 n 0000018000 00000 n 0000018781 00000 n 0000018802 00000 n 0000019444 00000 n 0000019465 00000 n 0000020118 00000 n 0000020139 00000 n 0000020727 00000 n 0000020748 00000 n 0000021428 00000 n 0000021449 00000 n 0000022091 00000 n 0000022200 00000 n 0000022221 00000 n 0000022916 00000 n 0000022937 00000 n 0000023294 00000 n 0000001122 00000 n 0000001384 00000 n trailer << /Size 53 /Info 16 0 R /Root 18 0 R /Prev 37848 /ID[] >> startxref 0 %%EOF 18 0 obj << /Type /Catalog /Pages 15 0 R >> endobj 51 0 obj << /S 120 /Filter /FlateDecode /Length 52 0 R >> stream This same engine takes seven seconds to go from idle to full power. I find this overhaul prospect both financially frightening and, in another sense, slightly ironic. It carries and there are built in data recorders. American Aviation, Inc. offers a retrofit cowl system for the PA-31T series (except the IA, which has the pitot cowl system as standard) that improves performance and reduces engine operating temperatures. There is one accident that occurred to a PA-31T under similar circumstances to the two that called the SAS into question: loss of control during an instrument departure in fog. disperse. They are a little older and definitely cheaper. Thats a recipe for a bad accident rate. Structurally, they have weathered well over the years. 1985 Piper Cheyenne 400LS airplane for sale located in San Jose, California. The two most important areas are avionics and autopilot/flight control systems. Or both. It sprouted the now-typical wing tip fuel tanks, PT6A-28 engines flat rated to 620 SHP and a redesigned flight control system that included a stability augmentation system (SAS) that became an item of major controversy and a blot on the reputation of the entire series. Copyright 2023 Flying Media. One reason for these problems may be that a pair of hurricanes smacked Piper's Vero Beach, Fla. plant in 2004 and destroyed or severely damaged 300,000 square feet of it. 0000004128 00000 n It takes particular attention during single pilot operations to keep everything in order and right side up while avoiding traffic. of the manual under: 'Tips for operators'. Even though there is an emergency backup to the SAS (a compressed air cylinder that imposes maximum nose-down force on the downspring), SAS is a no-go item on the PA-31T. The massive Dowty-Rotol composite propellers are expensive and have only eight inches of ground clearance, leading to erosion problems. He writes about his enthusiasm for both the machines and the people who fly and maintain them. In December, the plant was shut. In Kellys words: None of these planes should be running around without this modification.). [2], In the late 1970s, Piper avoided developing a clean-sheet light business jet to compete with the Cessna Citation I and upgraded its PT6As from 720 to 1,000hp (540 to 750kW) Honeywell TPE331-14s. Its power-to-weight ratio of 6 lbs/hp allows for a climb rate of 3,200 feet per minute and a cruise speed of 350 knots. But good looks, affordability, and ease of maintenance are just as important. The dominating features are the pair of broad Dowty Some owners report that the 400LS lacks the build quality compared to a King Air and its rarity can cause head scratches from mechanics who may never have seen one. First flight of this proof-of-concept airplane occurred in the spring of 1967. Mu2 fits the bill. How about a Cheyenne I that has those big engines? As a result, the aircraft can travel more than 2,000 nm in a long-range cruise. Certification in the United Kingdom was not possible (and not even tried) because of pitch sensitivity and pitch force behavior and feel, which encouraged pilot-induced pitch oscillations rather than damping the tendency. A review of briefs of the 56 accident and incident reports a typical five-year period include eight fatal accidents, two of which were in commercial T-1040s. Payments as low as . The start sequence is fully automated. And archaic autopilots can represent in-flight hazards if they are not meticulously maintained and rigged. The RVSM kit for KFC-400 equipped 400LS aircraft sells for $159,000 installed and includes a new Thommen AC-32 Air Data Computer and Thommen AD-32 Digital Altimeter, pitot-static plumbing and . Engine gauges are monitored for safety. The Piper Cheyenne 400LS, PA-42-1000, is the final development and improvement of the venerable Cheyenne line of twin turboprop business aircraft. The Piper Cheyenne 400LS, PA-42-1000 is the final development and improvement of the venerable Cheyenne line of twin turboprop business aircraft. A IA was the last airplane built at Pipers Lock Haven plant. maximum 30 percent power setting becomes apparent from reading the last page ground clearance of a meagre eight inches. Of course, you need bigger props too. Rotol propellers (whose diameter is the same as the chassis length of a The Cheyenne IIXL (PA-31T2) was certified in 1981. Flew one of these from Seoul, South Korea to the US (via Eastern Russia). But take a high-performance turboprop twin at a bargain-basement price, add a macho pilot with limited experience and training, then toss in an engine failure, IFR weather, or any kind of distraction. For a large number of buyers, the early models of Pipers Cheyenne series fulfill these requirements. thanks again. N7222F boasts RVSM approval, ADSB-In and Out, Garmin Active Traffic, weather radar, two G600s and two GTN750s completely integrated with the original jet-level Collins APS 65 Autopilot, bringing its automation to 21st century standards. AGREE! He stuck to his word. Have you ever heard of a King Air with Garrets. With the optional tip tanks installed, the fuel capacity is increased to 390 U.S. gallons. I believe they only built 44 of them. With the post start checks complete, it was apparent the engines produce a My boss did the same: I wanted the King Air, but it was too costly then. By early models, we mean the original Cheyenne (later renamed Cheyenne II), the Cheyenne IA, and the stretched Cheyenne IIXL. Even if your insurance company were willing to let you get away without top notch training, you should get it. Problem with instalation. Used Turbine Review: Cheyennes: The I, IA, II, AND IIXL 0000093845 00000 n Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association Find it free on the store. When I am not working, eating or sleeping, you can find me there. 0000042546 00000 n However, the plane can be flown correctly and safely, and is a fine performer. Most of the pilots involved in the reported accidents and incidents held ATP or commercial certificates; eight of the total held private licenses and one, a fatal accident, was flown by a student pilot. endstream endobj 268 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/Index[6 175]/Length 29/Size 181/Type/XRef/W[1 1 1]>>stream The Piper PA-42 Cheyenne is a turboprop aircraft built by Piper Aircraft. And at 12,050 pounds MGTOW, it is approved for single-pilot operations without a type rating, although insurance companies require annual training. This and other systems were rationalized with the 1978 model year. I would have had to maintain it, and I dont enjoy the thought of that. We have had a couple of engine problems, but discussions with our maintenance base, Des Moines Flying Center, have convinced us that all is well. Remote mounted avionics were considered mandatory in turbine powered airplanes. Both the II and IIXL can carry eight. Textron Aviation Marks Delivery of 400th Citation CJ4 Gen2, Boeing Reports First Quarter Net Loss on Higher Revenue, House Hunting As a First-Time Airplane Owner, Single-Engine Turboprop Commercial Ops in the EU Still in a Tangled Web, Aura Aeros Integral S Moves Closer to Its First Flight, General Aviation Has a Great Sustainability Story To Tell. the only time this limit should be in danger of being exceeded is when the In the summer, when the effective density altitude is higher, attempting to hand-fly at that altitude is simply impossible. AM With its powerful Garrett TPE 331-14-801 turboprop powerplants and capable systems, Piper's Cheyenne 400LS operates quite comfortably at altitudes as high as 41,000 feet while achieving impressive speeds Registration #: N142LS. One additional factor I believe to be absolutely necessary is that pilots flying the Cheyenne should attend the Flight Safety school on the Cheyenne on a recurrent basis. In Sum By the time the program ended, the Piper Cheyenne series offered good all-around performance, good use of interior space and competitive systems. It was completed in November. The problem is essentially that 0000013013 00000 n My retirement account is a shadow of its former self. %PDF-1.4 % Within our first year of ownership, my wife and I traveled to Bermuda, multiple Caribbean locations, and a 1,400-nm nonstop from Aspen, Colorado to Leesburg, Virginia. However, the Cheyenne Is changes allowed the airplane to be certified without a stability augmentation system. The McCauley Accessory Division of Cessna offers a propeller conversion kit that-according to the company-reduces interior noise and improves performance. mwP:5L6r+,I-$X2ijbj)Q]B3ZFTV_ e V'&xT$,lFR/oFN`rX\Kil! W7 }/T]ip'Dl~ If a person wanted to do that in a Cheyenne II, he could simply self-limit the -28 engines to the 500-HP output of the -11. (It should be noted that the Cheyenne III, which is an entirely different airplane, does not share these troubles.). Of the original 44 aircraft, just over 20 are believed to be flying in the United States today. and apparent space. It successfully smashed all the records in its class and set overall records to 6,000 and 12,000 meters. How do I know well get any of this money back, she asks. Most of us know the addictive qualities of aso.com, controller.com and Trade-A-Plane. Environmental systems, including the cabin blower, heater and air conditioning, fuel systems-including fuel line chafing, landing gear and horizontal stabilizer/elevator were the elements causing the most frequent reports. Still, thats a lot more money than overhauling the engines on our airplane. Operated within their limits, there are few peculiar characteristics other than the pitch sensitivity of the original Cheyenne. It also was the end of production of the PA-31T series, although production was planned to be restarted in Lakeland for the IA and IIXL. Its maximum speed at optimum altitude is advertised as 283 KTAS, and it has range-verses-payload numbers very comparable to the King Airs. The other three Cheyenne models, the III, IIIA, and 400LS, dont really fit into the entry-level category. Full flap speed is 148. A bonus is the fact that it is a beautifully aggressive and unique airplane. Epsilon . 0000093501 00000 n Designers there basically did whatever it took to accomplish something without a great deal of attention to whether it was the best way to achieve the objective.This attitude was reflected in basic systems and fabricating techniques as well as in cockpit organization and interior fittings. 181 89 The PA-42 Cheyenne III was announced in September 1977. Corrosion of the airframe has been rare, thanks to Pipers use of extensive anti-corrosion treatments and epoxy primers. The oil is going out the breather tube, and the evidence is all over the underside of the right wing. The potential danger is obvious. 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The lack of suitable piston engines, however, was a major factor in the failure of Pipers own Fat Albert, the Pocono. Some owners report that the 400LS lacks the build quality compared to a King Air and its rarity can cause head scratches from mechanics who may never have seen one. They have trouble getting repair parts to keep those planes flying too. On the other hand, we were totally unprepared for the $4,000 annunciator-panel repair, the frequent heater and air-conditioner repairs and the little valve that controls the bleed air pressure to the boots and gyros that goes for $6,500 and sits under the floor in the passenger compartment. In the case of the Meridian and the TBM, the airplanes are still in production, an important consideration when it comes to parts. AIRFRAME Total Time: 3319 ENGINES 1719 Hrs Since Hot Sections 60 hrs remaining until 100 hr inspection PROPELLERS: Total Hours: 166 Two 1650 hp Turboprops (MT five bladed Scimitar Propellers) EXTERIOR Done in 2008 White w/Three Dark Green Stripes INTERIOR Six (6) Passenger Executive Configuration Air Conditioning: P3 Air Turbine Aft Lav The Cheyenne 400LS is the largest and most powerful of Piper's turboprop twins, derived from the PA-31 Navajo. strengthened and lengthened, the props are huge paddle-blades with a Photo date: 2022-04-23. Owner Comments My company has flown a 1983 Cheyenne I for two years now and we have over 900 hours on it. It has a wider cg range than the I or IIXL (138 inches aft limit compared to 136) and is far more sensitive in pitch (more on this below). On this particular aircraft, the most stable ILS approaches are flown at 140 knots, in order to keep the phugoid from becoming a problem. These introduce artificial pitch forces at the yoke to counteract PIO or over controlling tendencies. 0000012267 00000 n It uses less runway, climbs and cruises faster than many pure jets. little doubt that Piper's PA-42 Cheyenne 400LS is the hot rod of the Tip tanks became standard. cut-off buttons should the temperatures exceed the 820 limit. Their advice is dont do anything yet. The PA-31T finally was certified in May 1972. This milestone has precipitated all sorts of careful calculations in my house. The Piper Cheyenne 400LS is uniquely positioned to adapt to our various missions in payload, distance and speed. 0000011689 00000 n %%EOF This engine has a reverse flow, free turbine arrangement. It is an aeroplane that dies everything well. The aircraft They can significantly reduce the cost of a hot section inspection or overhaul by reducing the effects of wear and tear on very expensive engine components. If you're stepping up from a Seneca, the 400LS is too far away, too dicey to handle (at least on the t/o-run), too expensive to operate and with parts difficult to locate (only 45 built - 2 known crashes). first flew in October 1969. Record HolderWith its six-pound weight to horsepower ratio, well in excess of the Extra 300 competition acrobatic plane, General Chuck Yeager set the time to climb record in the 400LS in the mid-1980s. 0000022484 00000 n Your email address will not be published. 0000013531 00000 n The Piper Cheyenne 400LS is powered by two Honeywell TPE 331-14 engines with 1,000 shp each. The most severe case was attributed to improper paint stripping. The Cheyenne 400 is that rare exception to the compromises required in aircraft design. The cheapest B models seem to hover around $1.4 million. To the pilot, such an airplane will have a normal feel. None of these occurrences was surprising. Are these big-engine Cheyennes as fast as they say? Aircraft Location: Stockton, California. But it was too late to start the Cheyenne from scratch. 0000296378 00000 n But Ill tell you honestly, I still crave that 400LS! A total of 81 IIXLs were sold. I was scared off by the low production number, the low number still flying, and the possibility of having the airplane grounded for long periods or even permanently. 0000173169 00000 n Indeed, the 1980 Cheyenne, which was be a direct competitor to the staid Beechcraft King Air 200. What could. The cabin lacks the headroom of a King Air, but large windows help give it a more airy feeling. AN TOP SPEED IS ;360 KNOTS TOO. Pipers Cheyenne 400LS is one of those rare airplanes that has few compromises. My wife tires a bit when I bring up the subject, but she knows that when Im staring out the window and she asks what Im thinking about, the answer is always the same: engines. Too. The Cheyenne I is powered by two Pratt & Whitney PT6A-11 turboprop engines, each rated at 500 horsepower and with a maximum propeller speed of 2200 RPM. For a pilot with no turbine experience, the I or IA would be the best choice because it is the least demanding to operate. 0000094191 00000 n executive turbine fraternity. Piper was never noted for sophisticated engineering. Click here to view charts for Resale Values, Payload Compared and Prices Compared, Click here to view the Piper PA-31T Cheyenne features guide, Shopping For A Seaplane: Pick A Price Point. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. -n!Zf`Wb | 9jL+_.6b|*3CY>D{}cLtGc"N%%y,IgR?/Mp6e>oBN)RLsSp#fS-4[4TkH-%K]u*[44Y#n We are not well pleased with the parts availability. A further, operational change was mandated for the PA-31T when Piper applied to increase the maximum operating altitude from 29,000 to 31,000 feet. Then, in 1984, the Cheyenne 400LS was born the queen of the Piper Aircraft fleet. 0000011922 00000 n Your email address will not be published. 0000014139 00000 n Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by NadJ, Aug 9, 2021. Ground handling is easy and straightforward, but taxiing will result in two very bruised knees if any sharp turns are required. The electric aux heat works fine, but cant be used if the de-ice equipment is on, because of the electrical overload. This is more a nuisance than a problem. During certification, longitudinal stability was an issue, and an elaborate "stability augmentation system" (SAS) was installed in the II series.. Piper still stocks a lot of parts, but if a Cheyenne part is unavailable, Piper will still make you one. What would I like to improve? Theres a loophole in the regulations, in that there is no requirement for long-period dynamic longitudinal stability, only one for static stability. PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS condition is Used PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Total Flight Time PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS total flight time is 6,465 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Total Engine Time PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS total engine time is P51041 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Category PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS category is Turboprop Aircraft PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Pics The Cheyenne IA was introduced in 1983. largely immune to the light aircraft market vagaries wrought over by You're a power user moving through this website with super-human speed. Dick Karl is a cancer surgeon who appreciates the beauty and science involved in both surgery and flying. Most are not repetitive. 0000006751 00000 n Garrett TPE 331-engined airplanes, such as the Aero Commanders, Mitsubishi MU-2s or even Swearingen (Fairchild) Merlin II and III models are a totally different category and set of considerations. From 1973 to 1974 America faced an oil crisis, driving fuel prices through the roof. Piper Cheyenne Series Aircraft Information Built by Piper Aircraft, the Piper Cheyenne is a turboprop powered aircraft. The cabin is so well insulated, this Even if misuse or abuse of a system or poor procedures dont lead to an incident or accident, improper operation can easily lead to unserviceability and increased maintenance cost. The computer also determines stall margin, commands stall warning signals and provides input to a simple, cockpit mounted angle of attack indicator dubbed the stall margin indicator. Pratt & Whitney and several of the companies that specialize in PT6 maintenance have field service reps who would be delighted to get you started on your support education. Late in 1966 a Navajo was ferried to Edward J. Swearingens facility for installation of a pair of PT6A-6A engines. the PA-42 - essentially a turboprop-powered Navajo. Passenger comfort is good in our aircraft. This line of thinking has prompted another round of endless cerebration. ). xref Maximum operating altitude for the I and II was 29,000 feet, but in 1983 the II was approved for 31,000, as was the IIXL. This thread reminds me of the day that I decided to buy a Huey. The airplane failed to meet FAA stability requirements, so it was back to the drawing board for a fix. All three can carry a good payload and sufficient fuel for from 900 to 1,000 nm with reserves. Torque limiters protect the engines from injudicious applications of power 1. The reason for this He knows the market and also has a straightforward way about him that belies his former career as a player in the National Football League. Gear and flap speeds are sufficiently high to fit in to a wide range of traffic situations. However, as speed built up, so lateral stability improved and we were very Some owners report that the 400LS lacks the build quality compared to a King Air and its rarity can cause head scratches from mechanics who may never have seen one. [3], The 400LS made aviation history on 16 April 1985 by setting two new time-to-climb records for its class (C-1e Group 2, 3000m and 9,000m) and shattering two time-to-climb records for all turboprop classes (6,000m and 12,000m): with retired United States Air Force Brigadier General Chuck Yeager at the helm of N400PS (with co-pilot Renald "Dav" Davenport flying right-seat), the aircraft departed from Portland-Hillsboro Airport's Runway 31L, immediately reached a 5,959-foot-per-minute climbout and achieved its 3,000m record in 1 minute, 47.6 seconds; the 6,000m record in 3 minutes, 42.0 seconds; its 9,000m record at 6 minutes, 34.6 seconds; the 12,000m record at 11 minutes, 8.3 seconds (time-to-altitude records were captured by on-board video camera aimed at relevant panel gauges, timed with superimposed timer; also verified by Hillsboro Airport tower personnel via radar, using encoded altimeter data transmitted from aircraft to tower via transponder).
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